The Tories are Terrorists!
We would first like to refer you to our FAQ, which begins as follows:
What exactly is it that you want from me?
We want you to register to vote. Then, when the election comes around, we want people who live in 'safe' Labour seats or marginal ones to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate. Not the anti-war-person, or the seems-like-a-nice-person, but the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate.
You'll note the Tories aren't mentioned in the core aim, but the negative charge most often levelled against this site is that we're all about getting people to vote Tory. In fact, there are a few people out there who are well and truly freaked out about that:
To paraphrase Marcellus Wallace; "That's fear f*cking with you. F*ck fear. Fear only hurts, it never helps."
We'll try to come up with a better quote later in the piece. In the meantime, we'd like to point out that there are a number of parallels between the Tories and terrorists, in that Blair has been using our fear of both to stay in power and get away with all kinds of things the public would never tolerate without the presence of a serious boogey-man. Or two.
Remember September 11th = Remember Margaret Thatcher
Dark times. Spectacularly dark times for many. But you can't let it blind you to the reality of the actual current threat, which in both cases is not as pronounced or as immediate as Blair would have you believe.
Blair: back me or the terrorists win = Blair: back me or the Tories win
Blair has used both arguments to convince the electorate and members of his own party to back and/or tolerate all sorts of things that actually work towards the aims of both. In the case of terrorists, Blair has the whole country running scared over phantom threats. Our logistical and political support for the US has actually sparked terrorist activity in Iraq (where previously there was none). The terrorists hardly need lift a finger. In the case of the Tories, Blair is adopting/hijacking all sorts of Tory policies in order to edge them out of the game. The Tories also hardly need lift a finger.
You're supporting the terrorists! = You're supporting the Tories!
This ends all sorts of debates. Just trying to get folks to consider the motivation(s) of terrorists brings you dangerously close to the use of empathy (*gasp*). For some people, empathy and sympathy are the same thing, especially when fear and outrage are involved. This is where the parallels are not exact, but the linear pattern in very similar. In the case of the Tories, we have asked people who live in 'safe' Labour seats or marginal ones to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate. For some people this involves voting Lib-Dem, SNP, Plaid Cymru, etc.- but for others this involves voting Tory. Fear and outrage turns the focus on this one single aspect and turns our strategic (and quite reluctant) use of some Tory candidates into outright support for the Tory party.
But what if terrorists attack? = But what if the Tories win?
And what are you willing to give up to stop this happening? Do you want to be unable to get permission to fart without an ID card? Are you willing to risk detention without trial? Lord Hoffmann said it best; "The real threat to the life of the nation... comes not from terrorism but from laws such as these."
Refuse to stand up to Blair and we sleepwalk into a police state. Refuse to stand up to Blair and we continue with a de-facto Tory government.
And in both cases many cannot see the threat Blair poses because of the overwhelming fear of terrorism and/or a return to Tory rule.
We repeat: we will not be cowed and we will not be diverted.
The policy stands.
In 'safe' Labour seats and marginal seats we want you to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate. Sometimes this will involve voting Tory.
Some of our supporters may only support us partially in that they will never ("Never! Do you hear me? Never!") vote Tory, and may instead opt for another party - perhaps even Respect or the Greens. Fair enough. Your call.
But we want all Labour MPs to know that there are many people who would fully support them were it not for Blair... and that we're so unhappy about Blair's leadership that we would not only consider voting Tory as a protest vote, but also voice this intention publicly.
1. Well, here we are, Tony. We're this angry. We'd like to ask you to pull your head in, but we've seen what you're capable of, and we have no intention of trusting you again. You can soften your position on detention without trial or downplay the possibility of a pre-emptive strike against Iran, but we know that the moment your survive the election you'll be back at it again.
2. Well, here we are, Labour MPs. We're this angry. Get rid of Blair and get Labour back on track. Don't make us do anything you might personally live to regret.
3. Perhaps we'd best make it clear that many of us directly involved with the campaign think that the Tories are complete and utter bastards. Except for Boris Johnson. Boris rules.
Backing Blair is not about voting for the Conservatives, but voting against Tony Blair. In the most effective way possible. In many cases this will mean voting for the second place candidate who may well be a Tory. Now that's a tough call, but it's something you're going to have to get over, and something those of us behind Backing Blair have already had to face.
Because as long as Tony Blair is leader, voting for Labour is effectively voting for a Tory government anyway.
Who made the bigger commitment to private investment in public services? That's right, under Tony Blair, Labour has given more support to PFI than the preceding Conservative government, support to a policy that mortgages the future of improved public services in order to give "apparent" short term benefits.
Who committed British military forces to 9 war zones in 8 years? Right again, Tony Blair.
Who is attempting to pass laws suspending habeas corpus and seriously eroding civil liberties? Bingo, Tony Blair.
So come polling day, we want you to get out there and vote. Strategically. Without compromise. Vote for the person most likely to take the seat from Labour.
In many constituencies their lead is so large that the chances of unseating Labour is virtually zero. But still vote against. Our protest needs to be visible, ruthless, and visibly ruthless.
Now, onto that slightly better quote we were promising you...
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself - nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt, First Inaugural Address, March 4 1933
We would do well to remember this quote in today's context. Because Tony Blair wants you to be afraid, to live in fear of terrorists and Tories.
Yesterday, Blair likened his relationship with the electorate to a troubled marriage. He's asking for one more chance.
We couldn't think of a more appropriate comparison. In fact, we would ask you to stare in the mirror and consider your fresh and faded bruises. Are you really so reliant on Blair that you're afraid to walk out the door? Are you really so blind to his abuse of your trust that you're willing to believe he can change?
What exactly is it that you want from me?
We want you to register to vote. Then, when the election comes around, we want people who live in 'safe' Labour seats or marginal ones to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate. Not the anti-war-person, or the seems-like-a-nice-person, but the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate.
You'll note the Tories aren't mentioned in the core aim, but the negative charge most often levelled against this site is that we're all about getting people to vote Tory. In fact, there are a few people out there who are well and truly freaked out about that:
To paraphrase Marcellus Wallace; "That's fear f*cking with you. F*ck fear. Fear only hurts, it never helps."
We'll try to come up with a better quote later in the piece. In the meantime, we'd like to point out that there are a number of parallels between the Tories and terrorists, in that Blair has been using our fear of both to stay in power and get away with all kinds of things the public would never tolerate without the presence of a serious boogey-man. Or two.
Remember September 11th = Remember Margaret Thatcher
Dark times. Spectacularly dark times for many. But you can't let it blind you to the reality of the actual current threat, which in both cases is not as pronounced or as immediate as Blair would have you believe.
Blair: back me or the terrorists win = Blair: back me or the Tories win
Blair has used both arguments to convince the electorate and members of his own party to back and/or tolerate all sorts of things that actually work towards the aims of both. In the case of terrorists, Blair has the whole country running scared over phantom threats. Our logistical and political support for the US has actually sparked terrorist activity in Iraq (where previously there was none). The terrorists hardly need lift a finger. In the case of the Tories, Blair is adopting/hijacking all sorts of Tory policies in order to edge them out of the game. The Tories also hardly need lift a finger.
You're supporting the terrorists! = You're supporting the Tories!
This ends all sorts of debates. Just trying to get folks to consider the motivation(s) of terrorists brings you dangerously close to the use of empathy (*gasp*). For some people, empathy and sympathy are the same thing, especially when fear and outrage are involved. This is where the parallels are not exact, but the linear pattern in very similar. In the case of the Tories, we have asked people who live in 'safe' Labour seats or marginal ones to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate. For some people this involves voting Lib-Dem, SNP, Plaid Cymru, etc.- but for others this involves voting Tory. Fear and outrage turns the focus on this one single aspect and turns our strategic (and quite reluctant) use of some Tory candidates into outright support for the Tory party.
But what if terrorists attack? = But what if the Tories win?
And what are you willing to give up to stop this happening? Do you want to be unable to get permission to fart without an ID card? Are you willing to risk detention without trial? Lord Hoffmann said it best; "The real threat to the life of the nation... comes not from terrorism but from laws such as these."
Refuse to stand up to Blair and we sleepwalk into a police state. Refuse to stand up to Blair and we continue with a de-facto Tory government.
And in both cases many cannot see the threat Blair poses because of the overwhelming fear of terrorism and/or a return to Tory rule.
We repeat: we will not be cowed and we will not be diverted.
The policy stands.
In 'safe' Labour seats and marginal seats we want you to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate. Sometimes this will involve voting Tory.
Some of our supporters may only support us partially in that they will never ("Never! Do you hear me? Never!") vote Tory, and may instead opt for another party - perhaps even Respect or the Greens. Fair enough. Your call.
But we want all Labour MPs to know that there are many people who would fully support them were it not for Blair... and that we're so unhappy about Blair's leadership that we would not only consider voting Tory as a protest vote, but also voice this intention publicly.
1. Well, here we are, Tony. We're this angry. We'd like to ask you to pull your head in, but we've seen what you're capable of, and we have no intention of trusting you again. You can soften your position on detention without trial or downplay the possibility of a pre-emptive strike against Iran, but we know that the moment your survive the election you'll be back at it again.
2. Well, here we are, Labour MPs. We're this angry. Get rid of Blair and get Labour back on track. Don't make us do anything you might personally live to regret.
3. Perhaps we'd best make it clear that many of us directly involved with the campaign think that the Tories are complete and utter bastards. Except for Boris Johnson. Boris rules.
Backing Blair is not about voting for the Conservatives, but voting against Tony Blair. In the most effective way possible. In many cases this will mean voting for the second place candidate who may well be a Tory. Now that's a tough call, but it's something you're going to have to get over, and something those of us behind Backing Blair have already had to face.
Because as long as Tony Blair is leader, voting for Labour is effectively voting for a Tory government anyway.
Who made the bigger commitment to private investment in public services? That's right, under Tony Blair, Labour has given more support to PFI than the preceding Conservative government, support to a policy that mortgages the future of improved public services in order to give "apparent" short term benefits.
Who committed British military forces to 9 war zones in 8 years? Right again, Tony Blair.
Who is attempting to pass laws suspending habeas corpus and seriously eroding civil liberties? Bingo, Tony Blair.
So come polling day, we want you to get out there and vote. Strategically. Without compromise. Vote for the person most likely to take the seat from Labour.
In many constituencies their lead is so large that the chances of unseating Labour is virtually zero. But still vote against. Our protest needs to be visible, ruthless, and visibly ruthless.
Now, onto that slightly better quote we were promising you...
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself - nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt, First Inaugural Address, March 4 1933
We would do well to remember this quote in today's context. Because Tony Blair wants you to be afraid, to live in fear of terrorists and Tories.
Yesterday, Blair likened his relationship with the electorate to a troubled marriage. He's asking for one more chance.
We couldn't think of a more appropriate comparison. In fact, we would ask you to stare in the mirror and consider your fresh and faded bruises. Are you really so reliant on Blair that you're afraid to walk out the door? Are you really so blind to his abuse of your trust that you're willing to believe he can change?



102 Comments:
I'm (cautiously) backing 'I'm Backing Blair':
http://www.petergasston.co.uk/index.php?p=1389
I've commented at http://burrardsblog.blogspot.com
Presumably this little wheeze involves the possibility of voting BNP to oust Labour candidates?
Or what about one of those nice pro-life parties?
I'm voting for any party that enforces frustrated University College graduates to get a proper job.
Bobby
Read the FAQ, please Bobby. Oh, and cut the 'all people who protest don't have jobs' bulldust. It doesn't wash. And neither do we. B-dm tisch!
The biggest threat to Labour in most seats on the British mainland (outside of Scotland) are the Conservatories. You're effectively encouraging people to vote for them, in most cases. Condemn the profit junkies and you have my vote.
There are so many holes in this website you could be here all day. I think perhaps none of the sites creators can remember Tory rule.
Wouldn't the message be better as 'Backing bLIAR ?'......???
Whoever done this website is reeelly clever and that.
Britain needs a place for the very clever people who realise the truth about Blairs lies to go and be satirical and FIGHT big brother.
I'm an utter bastard! Love the site! Are we allowed to like Gordon?
I'm an utter bastard! Love the site! Are we allowed to like Gordon?
Hokey doke, so you want to counteract the "Blair government's ongoing swing to the right" by electing a Conservative government. Hmmm.
The assertion, in defence of this on your faq, that we essentially have a tory government is utter bunk. Would the tories have lifted a million children out of poverty? Would they have created near full employment? Would they be pressing the world's leading nations to cancel third world debt? Would they have introduced extra benefits for children, the poorest families and the poorest pensioners? I'm guessing on their past record...that would be a no.
Interesting that you describe your campaign name as "Orwellian". I do wonder what you would have made of him fighting fascists in the Spanish Civil War. Another example of western imperialism using their military might to invade a sovereign country, perhaps?
As the great man once said: "to see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle".
Thank you Mandy…
Now I’m all for political activism, but surely this campaign is ultimately flawed.
I agree entirely with the points made about the paranoia currently being whipped up by this government regarding ‘terrorism’ and the true threat facing us. And I, like you, cringe at some of the thinly veiled right wing policies that regularly emanate from Labour HQ…
But can we please have some clarity of thought here…
Are you really expecting people to risk another Tory government in order to slap Tony Blair on the wrists for Iraq? Had the Tories been in power there would have been troops on the streets of Baghdad before we even had time to paint our banners and descend on Hyde Park…
Give me PR and a chance of a genuine protest vote then I’m all for reducing the labour majority.
Ask me to risk a return to Tory rule, and you’re asking a bit much I’m afraid…
In the meantime, take a look at the economy, education, the NHS, the unemployment figures and the general state of the nation and ask yourself; would we be better off under a Tory Government? I think not…
Spot on. Another Labour government would be terrible. The only thing worse, apart from the BNP, would be a Tory government (not that there's that much difference these days).
This is (an admittingly very good) Tory front for the election.
Good as it is I just can't see people going for it, however much they're upset with Blair - the Tories haven't acknowledged why they lost in 1997 and until they do Labour will be in power.
Hahahaha - us as a Tory front. Not much research required to disprove that one.
:o)
personally id like to see Billy Connely as prime minister, we'd still be f*cked but at least we'd go down laughing.
(oh and hes less of a clown than blair)
The site made me laugh from the off, you have created a great piece of satire.
I'm not sure I will do what you are suggesting or back backing blair as my vote will probably go lib-dem (but then the area I'm voting is a labour area anyway, so I suppose to a certain extent I will be).
Instead of encouraging people to vote for anyone BUT Labour how about encouraging people to vote lib-dem instead of Labour.
If the lib-dems beat the conservatives into second place and the ever increasingly right wing labour get into power (likely) then at least we would have an opposition with different oppinions.
I am personally going to back lib-dem. Have a read of my comment on that - it was the first post to my new blog: They're not Tory, and They're not Tony.
I was given a personal call by my local labour group - and told them that they would get my vote if it wasnt for Tony Blair. My flatmate also told me to pass them the message that he felt the same way. The woman on the end of the phone said she was not surprised - she had heard it a lot, and "between you and me, I agree".
I think sooner or later, the labour party need to wake up to the fact that they may need to get rid of this guy before he destroys what they actually stand for. It is quite likely he already has though.
While I back (to some degree) freedom of speech, I would vote a party that would disband the BNP and similar groups, and have them convicted of "Incitement Of Racial Hate".
if everyone followed the advice of this website:
1) labour would get smashed in the election;
2) the conservatives would win the election.
the conservative party and the labour party are THE SAME PARTY. we do not have a multi-party state, it is a myth. you should have made your advice: vote for the strongest non-tory opposition.
as for that comment above, "i'm all for freedom but i'm against freedom" - brilliant, you earned a shiny new smack-in-the-face.
The problem with this site is that 95% of the visitors won't understand the irony and will vote labour anyway.
I'm surprised nobody has made the comment that without Blair, the Labour party would be unelectable. (If someone has said this elsewhere on the site, they have my apologies)
No Blair, or Blair clone, then no Labour government and with any luck with Blair no Labour government.
Finally for any Blairite that takes exception to this comment. Governments that introduce draconian laws like the national ID card scheme, arrest at the whim of the government etc are generally considered fascist. Now virtually every fascist regime in the last century has called itself socialist: Hitler with his National Socialist Nazi party. The socialist and marxist Mussolini agreed with the pro-war syndicalists (Trade Unionists that believe they should control industry and government) in 1914 by forming his political party, Fasci d'Azione Rivoluzionaria, that lead him to power in 1921 and with support of the liberals was able to dissolve all other political parties and become dictator within 5 years. Oh yeah, nearly forgot, new Labour like to call their way the "third way" and so did Italy’s fascists.
logan: your statement smacks of intellectual elitism
;o)
In reading through the comments on this site an alarm bell started ringing in my head. Last night I was reading John Kenneth Galbraith's The Economy Since the Wars. I'm not a supporter of Keynesian ideas nor am I a student of politics, I just have barmy reading tastes :-)
That said a paragraph from chapter 11 is apposite;
In Germany in 1938 to learn at first hand of the course of German economic policy, I saw the Brown Shirts on parade and my contempories in military uniform. I heard the pervasive greeting: Heil Hitler! And I also heard professors and even the occasional government figure expressing their strictly private distate for the National Socialism and the Nazis. Nonetheless, I saw an economic system in which reference to the depression was wholly in the past tense. There was a strong undercurrent of concern as to the way the recovery had been brought about, specifically as to the public borrowing and expenditure on which it so clearly depended. But this was secondary to the general satisfaction that the country had escaped from the stark economic misery of earlier years.
quoted from ISBN1-85619-415-9 My feeling is that the UK has not yet learned the lessons so painfully learned by the Germans.
I will not call Blair Facist, that label belongs to history. His goverment is the most illiberal government we have ever had. He and his backers have done things that Tory Grandees would wet their pants in excitement at the thought of themselves getting away with. They only oppose him because they want a go in the trough.
I remember hearing the news that Thatcher had gone from a homeless person running through the streets of Colchester yelling the news. Sadly, he didn't understand that the real bastards were still in power.
I almost allowed myself to believe we were rid of them in 1997. Now I know I was right to doubt it.
The nation's well off.
The nation's hard up.
Depends what you mean by the nation.
Thatcher the Destroyer less illiberal than Blair the Butcher? That's the best one yet. He's only pushing through what she began.
We've wasted enough time. Build her pyre and prepare the funeral orations. No last requests. All her familiars and loyal defenders next. Dogs in the street.
Old folks home with Betty sWindler (care assistant). Dirty Phil the Greek - public toilet attendant. Chicken factory for 'Wills'. Harry - Governor of Jamaica or, at least, Reichsfeldmarschall for Chillingout and suburbs. Right, boy bands next. Then Backing Blair.
Don't vote Labour under any circumstances except to defeat the Tories.
Don't vote LibDem unless ... just don't vote LibDem.
Follow any vote for Conservative with self-harm or suicide.
Shit. What next.
Tony Blair is an MI5 agent, who was recruited at top-flight Scottish private school, Fettes College, in the days of mass employment. Internal sabotage.
It's the only explanation.
Doctor ... can I have some more?
I posted a comment the other day that has mysteriously not appeared on. Perhaps it because it was in support of Blair and the Tories, pointing out that the 'real' Labour Governments of yesteryear were all complete failures. The best thing that My Blair has done is to keep the policies of Baroness Thatcher and John Major. It is what keeps most of you in Jobs and allows you to buy the things you want and live in relative peace and prosperity. And that goes for almost every person in society! True a lot need to be done but the policies of the Conservatives has done more for the country then Labour ever can or will. (Although I’d like to caveat that by saying that even I recognise the need for a viable left leaning opposition to the right grounded and from drifting too far into the void.) Also, How about some proper debate on this site instead of a bunch or unsupported comments and accusations? Plus, as happy as I am that the blogg owner is (even by proxy) encouraging people to vote conservative I really can’t believe that is helpful. Whilst satire and irony are all well and good if you truly wanted to make a difference why don’t the lot of you get involved directly in politics, local or national? I am. Sorry if anyone already is!!
Leftie nirvana!
Aren't Labour brilliant. Savaged pensions, record trade deficit, record national debt*, record personal debt, record mortgage arrears, record bankrupties, record tuition fees, record number of paper pushers, record number of new laws, record taxes, record hospital infections, record stock market falls. Give me the Tories any day of the week.
*35% of national income for primary debt. 82% including unfunded public sector pensions - this increased 50 billion pounds (nearly 1000 pounds per person) last year alone.
and in reply to "Mandy"
... record number of poor pensioners due to culture of benefit dependency, record low savings ratio.
Did you know that an independent actuary calculated that you had to save £180,000 to make it worth while saving at all for retirement?
Did you know that a 42% real increase in education spending resulted in 7.5% more teachers and 35% more administrators?
Only a third of the new workers in the NHS are doctors or nurses?
The public sector now employs 1 million more people than in 1997. Thats 17% more people. The private sector has 7% more people. Who is going to end up paying for the wages and pensions of the public sector workers if this continues?
My partner and I have been ruined by this government. I'd had to retire in my 40s because of ill health. I had a pension - but it was with Equitable Life. My husband is a university lecturer who has just been made redundant. In his early 50s he may never work again. I have other friends in further education who've had breakdowns, made suicide bids, because of the pressure they are under. Tony & Co have trashed further education in this country, and cynically set up a pensions crisis for the future to get more money in the treasury now.
I've joined the LibDems. In my area voting LibDem will probably put the Tory in, but that is fine with me. The Labour MP is a Blair Babe who has never voted against this government, and she is a rotten constituency MP, imposed on the local Lab party and loathed by most of them. The Tory is a pompous prat, but he is a Libertarian who was anti-Iraq war.
I'm amazed at myself that I actually feel good about a Tory winning, but I will cheer when he is elected.
I hate the tories as much as the next man but I'm beginning to think we may need to kick Labour out for a term to kill off New Labour - it's gone that far and it's bigger than Bliar.
Hey, I'm all for getting M. Blair out and Labour moving back to the left. Then us Tories will never have to worry about a Labour governemnt being voted in again!
I have added my link from Politicalog. My own blog that tries to cut through all the New Labour spin.
I'm always sorry to hear about redundancies. Thatcher's hatchet men did the same thing throughout the 1980s. The appalling thing was that, instead of making a few hundred better-off unfortunates redundant, they did it on a mass scale. Hundreds of thousands of workers' lives were devastated by their get-rich-quick schemes (a.k.a. policies).
The tweed brigade, the Barbour half-wits, pro-Royal slabberers, 'Four Weddings' admirers, mass-hysterical cult of Di adherents, out-for-myself farmers, and, yes, sorry, the university lecturers: none of them lifted a finger!
Work is absolutely essential to a person's sense of worth, as you'll know (maybe some of you won't). Many communities have been unable to recover. My home town is only starting to begin to sort of get back on its feet now.
There is little positive to say about the Thatcher woma .. sorry, I almost insulted the fairer sex ... that bitch. If Hell exists, one thing's for sure, Dante's re-writing the Inferno.
As to present-day Conservatories, scratch one and you'll find an ex- or nascent Thatcherite. What is it exactly (that is in any way noble in humanity) that they think is worth conserving?
The Tory idea might have been a good one (don't worry, I'm going somewhere). The creation of wealth, filtering down to all those who most have need of it - it's just never, ever happened. Nor will it ever. The individualistic spirit of the entrepreneur (which is the thing that makes it happen) is the very thing that anaesthetizes the entrepreneur's moral imagination. If profit were merely part of the equation, then we'd be getting somewhere. Most of the time, however, it's the only thing that matters. A recent housing report revealed 600 slums in one small part of the UK alone. Resounding huzzahs for the creation of wealth!
All past Labour governments have failed? Remember when the trains ran properly (nat-ion-al-i-sat-ion)? What about the NHS? For most people in the country, this is the supreme achievement of ANY British government in history. It's certainly not Waterloo (just think: we might have got rid of That Lot in a mellifluous tongue instead of this ugly German dialect [English], if it wasn't for those ghastly Prussians!!!).
Screw your courage to the sticking-place, turn down the collars on those rugby shirts, and stop thinking only about yourself (because that will only ever be about yourself).
I've never voted Labour but, if I absolutely had to, I would. If you live in a strong Tory seat, you absolutely have to.
Never vote Tory.
Hands up with me, if you think that teachers, university lecturers, doctors, City gents, bankers, and the whole pantheon of important people, are overpaid anyway?
Aah, but those house prices!
Aah, but that boom!
Why is everyone coming here so binary about this. Giving Tony a duffing at the polls is more likely to result in a hung parliament, a more moderate coalition with the Lib-Dems, resulting in Proportional representation and an escape from the two party system BS we have today.
If it means a few Conservatives get some more seats this is the price we will have to pay (for now).
Fight the power! F*ck Blair and the horse he rode in on. The shifty little party-hijacking opportunist b*stard.
Cool site but don't blow it by using bad language as it makes you look like angry teenagers. Also have you sent press releases about the site to right leaning papers? Channel 4. As for donations, why not approach some of the 'arty' types who despise Blair. harold Pinter for example.
Cool site but don't blow it by using bad language as it makes you look like angry teenagers. Also have you sent press releases about the site to right leaning papers? Channel 4. As for donations, why not approach some of the 'arty' types who despise Blair. harold Pinter for example.
You may want to check out my website, strategicvoter.org.uk which will be to some exempting genuinely anti-war MPs (the 67 standing again, not the rest of the 139 Labour MPs who voted for the procedural motion (Div 117)on the day of the big Iaq vote, and then 48 abstained on the really vital final vote (118), and 6 even voted for the war. But most of them have big majorities anyway, and we take no position supporting the anti-war MPs against LibDem or SNP/Plaid challengers, the 'exemption' from the general rule: Guilt by Association with Blair only applies to genuine anti-Blair Lab MPs faced by pro-war MPs.
if we keep the number of 'exemptions' down to a minimum then we can succeed in getting to a balanced parliament, which gives us a chance to press for PR from which a different kind of politics can evolve IMHO.
By closely following the polls we tailor our recommendations to try to bring Labour down to zero majority (or minus 20) by anti-Labour tactical voting. But then if the Tories start to go ahead in the likely seats (and a fair bit ahead in the polls for that to be likely) then our ’strategic voting’ recommendations work the other way: vote national loser! = play off New Lab against Con and vice versa to balance the Parliament and create an opening for a new kind of politics to grow.
In other words
a) we need to check our seats in relation the current poll-swings - see our Update gizmo; and
b) we need to support the LibDems and other more or less anti-war parties where they stand a chance of winning in any particular seat, c) and we also need to think the unthinkable as Backing Blair have the clarity and courage to advocate (though a little OTT in my view) and support the Tories in Lab-Con marginals (I call it strategic voting or balancing voting) in order to get Blair down to the point where we are thereby empowering those anti-war MPs from all parties who are in fact elected (in other seats).
I plan to be in London March 18th before the demo on March 19th. Should we have a meet-up of all the anti-war blogs and websites?
Best wishes, Keith Mothersson
[contact through strategicvoter.org.uk)
You may want to check out my website, strategicvoter.org.uk which will be to some exempting genuinely anti-war MPs (the 67 standing again, not the rest of the 139 Labour MPs who voted for the procedural motion (Div 117)on the day of the big Iaq vote, and then 48 abstained on the really vital final vote (118), and 6 even voted for the war. But most of them have big majorities anyway, and we take no position supporting the anti-war MPs against LibDem or SNP/Plaid challengers, the 'exemption' from the general rule: Guilt by Association with Blair only applies to genuine anti-Blair Lab MPs faced by pro-war MPs.
if we keep the number of 'exemptions' down to a minimum then we can succeed in getting to a balanced parliament, which gives us a chance to press for PR from which a different kind of politics can evolve IMHO.
By closely following the polls we tailor our recommendations to try to bring Labour down to zero majority (or minus 20) by anti-Labour tactical voting. But then if the Tories start to go ahead in the likely seats (and a fair bit ahead in the polls for that to be likely) then our ’strategic voting’ recommendations work the other way: vote national loser! = play off New Lab against Con and vice versa to balance the Parliament and create an opening for a new kind of politics to grow.
In other words
a) we need to check our seats in relation the current poll-swings - see our Update gizmo; and
b) we need to support the LibDems and other more or less anti-war parties where they stand a chance of winning in any particular seat, c) and we also need to think the unthinkable as Backing Blair have the clarity and courage to advocate (though a little OTT in my view) and support the Tories in Lab-Con marginals (I call it strategic voting or balancing voting) in order to get Blair down to the point where we are thereby empowering those anti-war MPs from all parties who are in fact elected (in other seats).
I plan to be in London March 18th before the demo on March 19th. Should we have a meet-up of all the anti-war blogs and websites?
Best wishes,
Greenham Hope
[contact through strategicvoter.org.uk)
I'm not necessarily backing Blair - but I'm certainly backing Labour. Despite the fact that you look like a seditious and viral pro-Tory front organisation, your website is very funny indeed.
Recess Monkey
www.recessmonkey.com
When it comes to election time it is all about general perception. It is at once democracy's greatest strength and greatest weakness. To make any real impact you have to affect a huge percentage of voters and (due to our archaic system) its dependent on where they live. I'm sorry guys but one website isn't going to cut it. If everyone who reads this votes as you suggest it will probably not topple one Labour MP.
However...
Why not? What harm can it do? The Tories are NEVER getting back into power. General perception (see above) reinforced by the fact they have got that prat Howard running the ship guarantees that it will not be a true blue day. So if you truly feel that Blair is Satan incarnate VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE. Short of blockading the polling stations with trucks nothing else seems to be able to catch Blair's attention.
Absolutely. Does anyone honestly believe that the Tories wouldn't be worse than the serial killer Blair? The Tories have always been The Warmonger Party. (The British people recognized Churchill as the great Warmonger because that's what they needed to fight Hitler. Then, when a brief peace interrupted, they ditched him. Isn't this delicious?).
If we must vote for a party other than Blair, why don't you encourage people to vote LibDem, for example (not that I ever would)?
Who are the numbskulls that believe the Tories are the party of peace?
If anyone can engineer a hung parliament, I'll eat my postal vote. Your material worries will be at an end - all parties will vie to indulge you in opulence/ as a reward for this omniscience. If you were to miscalculate slightly (say by tens and tens of thousands of votes), there's a big danger that the Tories could get back in again. For many of us, who remember when they last ran amok (for 18 years), this is too dreadful to contemplate.
However bad Blair is (and that's war-criminal-bad), the Tories are far worse.
Don't (ever) vote Tory!
I give up! for a minute I thought that some here might be able to engage in proper debate but all I see are gross misconceptions, generalisations (both for and against Blair and the Tries)I guess it all goes back to the fact that the British really are not interested in properly understanding the issues and policies and just like to bitch and be controversial whilst maintaining the illusion that we are ever so enlightened and fair. Just for a moment lets all of us Try to understand that no matter Left or Right we all are trying to look out for Britain.. Oh and for those who say the Tories are just a bunch of war loving selfish country people only out for themselves….please just shut up, your ignorance is astounding.
Just one final question. Did anyone else see that TV programme (I think it was news night a few months ago where Michael Portillo and Tony Benn we having a good only chat very civil, where each actually listened to the others views (take the hint)? At the end it was very apparent to all including the two of them that they actually agreed about a surprising amount of issues. I suppose it could be said that each was so far left/right that they met each other around the back. Goes back to my point that we are all just trying to do what we can for all Britons. We need each other, as a balance. Each party (the main ones, the LibDems are a joke) has its good bit sand bad bits. Back to the LibDems, did anyone not read that it is actually their part policy to adopt a stance on issues is local areas based on what will get them elected and that the most important thing is to get elected Further that if they find ther stance not working to switch. In Tory areas they take a right leaning stance in Labour areas they take a Left leaning stance. They stand for everything and nothing. In my local area Labour and Conservative groups and councillors agree on one thing the LibDems (the party, not voters) are bad. Whilst, it could be said that catering to the electorate is good (after all we live in a representative democracy) Any party that can change skins so readily can not be trusted in government to take hard decisions (like those taken by Blair and Thatcher) if it will affect popularity. Try accusing Blair and Thatcher of that and see how far it gets you.
Brothers! Brothers! We should be struggling together!
http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-10.htm
I don't think you're doing yourself any favours using Michael Portillo as an exemplar of rational discourse. I'm pleased to hear that you and he admire the reason in Tony Benn's argument. It's hard to resist, isn't it? Wasn't Portillo's father an anarchist? Didn't he spend his school holidays up in Scotland, in West Fife no less, the UK's erstwhile no.1 hotbed of communism? No wonder he's confused. Then, of course, he did that tawdry TV programme, where he lived with those simply awful council estate people. He was great in that! He isn't swinging back to the left, is he?
The idea that Porteelyo and Tony Benn are actually snug bedfellows in all the important political issues, is frankly hilarious. Talk about misconceptions! What are you proposing? A Marxist/ neo-Thatcherite (private) popular front?
You Tories are always rattling on about 'Britain this' and 'UK that'. Abstract concepts. Like wealth, commodity, and so on. What do you mean anyway? How does one look out for a country? People make up the country we are all supposedly looking out for. Without people, there'd be no Britain. The obverse is only true if God is an Englishman. It's no good creating wealth, if the wealth does not get re-distributed to those most in need of a level playing field. And it never has under the Tories. You're quite right to point out the Blair-Thatcher continuum. The dismantling of the NHS, the education crisis, the destruction of the unions (at one time, one of the few powers that working-class people had), the eradication of sick pay and holiday entitlement (now widespread), the expansion of non-contractual employment, not to mention the first illegal invasion of Iraq (and the Malvinas!), the subsequent 10 year bombing campaign that the media have ignored, and the assault on the civil liberties that we all took for granted - all began under General Thatcher and Major Minor.
As to generalisations, sensei, I haven't been able to identify a single specific point in your contributions. Your remarks about the LibDems are true, I think, if applied diachronically. But we all knew that already and that's why they never get in. If you mean it to apply to current policy, I have to ask, at what level of proper debate are you engaging - gossip? hearsay? rumour-mongering? How do they square this with stated policy? Who told you this? In what way do they take a certain stance? There's little need to attack them in such an indisciplined way, or in any other, since they've no chance of being elected, but I will say that I admire their decision to adopt an undeniably more left-of-centre stance at the moment. I really wouldn't bother voting for them , if I were you, except, as I said, where there's a chance of keeping the Tories out. (Couldn't we just abolish all right-of-centre parties and have true democracy - choose from any number of left-wing parties? Demos cratu - voice of the people - most people working-class - right-wing parties have business interests at heart - business interests usually inimical to working-class interests - left-wing parties usually have working-class interests at heart - majority are working-class - well-off minority dictating to hard-up majority - yes, I think it would be more democratic! The greater good and all that, what).
Saying that the Tories are warmongerers does not mean that all Tories love war, as you suggest. Warmongering means dealing in war, whether you love it or not. No-one suggested that all Tories love war or even dealt in it but that, by implication, all Conservative governments have dealt in it. So you can rest easy (unless you were in government). The Empire, at its peak around the time of the birth of the Labour Party, was built by the Tories (and the now defunct Liberals), by waging war. Later, the matured Labour Party dismantled the Empire and freed its conquered peoples, by waging peace in its place. Blairism this was not. The unrestricted pursuit of wealth, which is the Tory ethos (now there's a contradiction), will always lead to war. Respectful internationalism is its only antidote, a principle not particularly associated with Conservatism, if I understand 'Kleine Englander' properly.
Now you shut up (I hit you with a flower). Your ignorance was predictable (right = haven't thought things through properly).
No, no, naughty BB. That quote was taking the jimmy-riddle out of left-wing factions, as well you know, you naughty lampoon, you. Not between left and right. What happens when there's two common enemies and no-one else can get elected? Choose the lesser of two evils (not the Tories).
Bad BB!
So we're the right-wing faction? I'd just like to clarify that before I point out that your arguments would carry more weight if you were willing to put a name or identity (such as an actual website or blog) behind them.
Oh, damn... now look what I've gone and done.
I would urge any Briton concerned with the future of his country to vote his conscience and not to worry about gaming the system. Frankly I am grateful to Prime Minister Blair for aiding the United States in defeating the Ba'ath socialist tyrant of Iraq. However I have a question for BB: Why do you need to know who Attlee5Churchill0 is to verify his comment? That is is like saying you must know who Galileo was to test his observations. Surely you are not looking for ammunition for an ad hominem attack?
I don't think I know what you've done, BB. It feels like nothing. Besides that, you also seriously misunderstood me.
In response to your nervous clutching at straws, 'capitalist American for Blair' posted the following at 7:24 AM yesterday. It appeared underneath your comment yesterday but has disappeared today (Friday).
"I would urge any Briton concerned with the future of his country to vote his conscience and not to worry about gaming the system. Frankly I am grateful to Prime Minister Blair for aiding the United States in defeating the Ba'ath socialist tyrant of Iraq. However I have a question for BB: Why do you need to know who Attlee5Churchill0 is to verify his comment? That is is like saying you must know who Galileo was to test his observations. Surely you are not looking for ammunition for an ad hominem attack?
('capitalist American for Blair')
Methinks you were, BB. His question is all the defence I need (the other stuff I quoted out of courtesy only).
I'll say it again though. If you encourage people to vote for the most likely candidate to defeat whichever local Labour candidate is standing, you will in most cases in the UK (outside of Scotland, on the British mainland), be encouraging people to vote Tory. This is a Very Bad Thing. Just come clean.
To:
a capitalist American for Blair
Attlee5Churchill0
I would greatly distrust any 'proof' regarding climate change (or lack thereof) if it came from someone employed by an oil company - in much the same way that I would distrust poll data suggesting a threat of a Tory win if it originated from the Labour party.
That is my only interest in knowing more about you, Attlee5Churchill0, as you seem intent on muddying the waters by suggesting we are saying the Tories are a peace party (we're not) or that we're a Tory front (we're not).
Those who fear the tories forget that most people don't come across stuff like this and there is not a petunia's chance in a supernova that enough people will do it to hand victory to the Tories. We might just have a chance to reduce the majority enough to bring back some control. Democracies are not fixed in stone and they do come and go - ours is going so lets try and bring it back.
My father, an ex coalminer (for the benefit of Attlee4Churchill) has just been killed by this government. He went into hospital with a urinary infection. In order to meet government set targets for a&e waiting times he was stuffed into a non medical ward, where they failed to give him his meds for Parkinson's disease and diabetes. After a couple of days without his Parkinson's meds he could not swallow, so they stopped giving him food and water. After a few more days without his diabetes meds he went into a coma. Then he died. The death cert says dehydration and pneumonia.
BB,
I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Labour Party. Haven't campaigned for them, haven't voted for them. I would though (for the first time), if the Tories (the BNP or UKIP were the alternative). I've never had to make that decision. Any more questions on my identity and I'll be taking the 5th, Mr. Chairman. Why would you think I'd have to be a Labour supporter to support Labour (the lesser of two evils)?
I didn't suggest you claimed that the Tories were a peace party. I attacked someone else for using, as a reason to vote Tory, the argument that Tony Blair was a warmonger. Tony Blair is a warmonger. That's no reason to vote Tory. It's a reason to vote for a party who supports peace, whichever that might be.
You may or may not be a Tory front. I'm prepared to believe your heartfelt protestations. Nonetheless, the cumulative effect of your campaign, presuming it was successful, would be to encourage more people to vote for the Tories than for any other party, since they offer the most effective opposition in more seats than any other party. See my reply to Democratic Peace as to why that is a bad thing (Bad Thing to Vote Tory).
Look, it's like this. Labour have moved much further to the right than they've ever been. This is bad. Now they are where the Tories are roughly, when they're not further right. Labour's unlikely to move any further to the right (especially if they struggle in the election). The same can't be said of the Tories because of their learning difficulty with collective morality (someone needs to lead us and it should be them, shouldn't it?) and their narrow understanding of life's hardships (poverty of hope, for example).
So, we've agreed that Right = Bird-brained nincompoop and Tories = Right therefore ... choose the lesser of two evils (in the present circumstances). But don't be thinking I'm a Labour supporter. Under Blair, left is right and right is wrong. Isn't it?
Jane,
You shouldn't do that. What am I supposed to say? I'd be less than human if I didn't express my regret at your loss.
You're obviously very angry and it sounds like you have good reason. You might be angry at the right people, I don't know. Tony Blair is too busy arranging the mutilation of grandmothers and their charges, to put a shift in as a doctor too.
I don't know many coalminers either that admire Tony Blair (and I know a lot of coalminers). What gives you the impression that I support the Labour Party? I quite agree with you. The NHS is a mess. They should undo the work of the Tories and re-nationalise it. My mother, father and sister were/are nurses and will testify to the decline since Thatcher and the semi-private trusts came along.
Do you actually think the situation would improve under the Tories? There'd be more privatisation, more targets, more corner-cutting to maximise profits, more staff pay-offs to maximise profits, the remaining staff would have to work harder for the same money, they'd do a shoddier job, safety standards would decline, so on, so on, so on. You're absolutely right to attack the Labour Party but the Tories would be worse.
I lost someone very close to me about 9 months ago (honestly). I can't think about her too long without being affected. I'd never use her to score points, no matter what the political reason. I don't think you should either.
Democratic peace,
Deary me, I thought it went without saying that my arguments against BB's tactics assumed success of BB's campaign, otherwise there's no point in any of us going through all of this. Why would BB go to such bother otherwise? Of course relatively few people will see this website. Surely it's in the nature of argument that we have to assume that this isn't the case? If you think I'm wasting my time attacking the tactics, why are you wasting your time defending them?
I wouldn't be so cocky about your prognostications (unless you'd like to be proved wrong). You'll remember the 92 election? No-one, not a single newspaper, TV channel, pollster, or future blogger, predicted that the Tories would win but win they did (I think it was even more depressing than when Thatcher got in the first time, second time, third time, believe it or not). I think I'm right in saying that no government has ever won by a large majority in their third term, so every vote counts.
Our democracy is fixed in stone, if you think that a healthy alternative to voting for the current Labour monster is to vote Tory. I quite agree with you. Our democracy is in danger, so let's keep the ancien regime (New Labour and the Tories) out and get some fresh blood in.
Why don't you and friend BB encourage people to vote (swallows hesitantly) LibDem. I'd defend that move, since they're left-of-centre this week and Left Of Centre Is Good. Because they don't have a polling-booth's chance in a tsunami of getting elected? According to you, neither do the Tories.
And do you think the Tories will safeguard our democracy? If I remember correctly (and I do), the first assault on the right to peaceful assembly came under Major's minority. I don't think I need to go into Thatcher's record (God damn her soul). Man alive. What do you think that bitch would have done if she had been in power when all this al-Qaeda scaremongering began?
I don't fear the Tories. I remember them (I'd be better off under them, personally).
Tories,
Yes, I'd definitely be better off under the Tories. I'm on a reasonable wage, I live in a nice place (a council stronghold for the Tories), the houses are a bit pricy, I could do with help on the taxes. They all like the royals and the ten thousand sycophants round here. There used to be a hunt not far away. (Bye bye!). I've come a long way from that mining town.
Big deal. The majority get squeezed by the Tories. That's all that matters. Full stop.
The Tories mistrust a strong workforce. Their version of democracy depends on a weak workforce and a large pool of unemployed (so that there's no negotiations over conditions). This isn't just bad. This is Downright Bad.
You want to downsize something, downsize the ones that stole the land from everyone in the first place (the 'igNobility'). Versailles Palace is a huge tourist money-spinner for France. You know who used to live there? You know who doesn't now?
Read 'Royal Fortune'.
Every time I ask a friend, member of the family, work colleague what they think about taxes for services, they say: Tax us more.
The f.....s around here have got more money than them. They say: reduce our taxes (I can't afford the bills on my French cottage). They say: what's the good of paying more taxes for bad services? Who can remember when services were better? Me, me! I can! When taxes were higher.
Between life and death, we're all in the same boat. All with the same fears (degree aside). People who think only about themselves are the lowest of the low. Don't vote Tory.
Attlee5Churchill0
I am glad for you that you are not a member of the Labour Party. Nobody wants to be labelled cynical or stupid.
The idea of Blair losing so Labour moving left is the same logic I've applied to the Conservatives losing (again) and moving to the right. In fact, it was one of the first ever posts on my Blog (which is, I admit, not even three weeks old yet).
If the Lib Dems win maybe the Tories will go rightwards, Labour
will go left and we'll be back to the Left/Right divide of the 70s.
You chaps have just turned idle specualtion into a major campaign. I think you're potty but I'm impressed too...
AB
Would it not be more sensible to encourage people to try to oust only the pro-war Labour MPs? They are the ones who tend to be more right-wing and paranoid about terrorism. Encourraging people to vote conservative could help a conservative victory, and all political parties with shift further to the right!
It's interesting that the labour penny hasn't dropped yet, that Mad Tony is turning into a sewerious liability for the party. He has alienated giving many different groups distinct reasons to loathe him with Iraq, Tuition fees, Immigration, the ID card/terrorist nonsense, pensioners, and so on. Then there is his swivel-eyed, drooling devotion to the EU constitution and the Euro, and his pension plan for Cherie, the "human rights" industry.
No doubt I am repeating someone here but...
1) I agree that Tony has to go - as do any other 'on message' MPs
2) I remember the Tories and no, never ever again.
My approach since the miners strike has been to spoil my ballot paper. This year I vote LSD or whatever they are called now. If you buy (1) and (2) then let's all make a new mistake.
i will be voting for the pwerosn with a best chance to beet this terrorist new labour party.
where i live in liverpool west derby, i will be voting for the official liberals - not the lib dem big buissness lovers.
Blair is infinitely better than the Tories. To encourage them to be re-elected is the worst possible thing that could happen to this country. Shame on you, I will be voting Labour.
I can see why you're doing this but feel you are deeply misguided. My reasons are here: http://leejones-san.blogspot.com/2005/04/countdown-commences-to-election-date.html
Ok I get BB's point here, but I think "Labour In, Blair Out" (on one of the site's posters) is a much stronger message than the vote-for-Tories-to-get-Labour-out.
Surely pressure to replace Blair with Brown would be more productive than replacing him with Howard?. In agreement with someone else's comment, the ideal replacement for a pseudo-Tory government can hardly be an actual Tory one.
The problems I have with this site are:
1) There are at least 80 seriously marginal Labour seats. Labour only needs to
lose 77 seats to lose its majority. Ergo, your 'protest vote' for the Conservatives,
replicated in enough marginal seats, could very well let the Tories back into government.
2) I would like Gordon Brown to be Prime Minister. I would like him to have a large
majority of support so that he has a mandate to introduce some 'real' Labour policies.
This can only happen if Labour is returned with a decent majory on May 5th. As Polly
Toynbee wrote yesterday, hold your nose and vote Labour in the knowledge that within
18 months Blair will be gone and we'll have a true Labour leader.
3) People advocated giving the Labour government a bloody nose in 1979, thinking that it would give them a sizable jolt so that when they returned to government in 1983 they would have learnt their lesson. We all know what happened next. Please don't let it happen again.
Labour is not perfect but at least it has done a great deal to reduce inequality, to reduce unemployment, to promote fairness (particularly for minorities) and to invest in public services.
The Conservatives will do none of this. Please don't let them in again.
Brown and Blair have NOT lifted a million "out of poverty". They have lifted these people out of a level of income they choose to define as poverty, and which they themselves impose through the benefit system. So if they claim there is poverty, it's the poverty Brown imposes.
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Have you all forgotten over 3 million unemployed and houses being repossessed because of soaring interest rates?
Nobody will agree with everything Labour does but they do have a fair society at heart, not just wanting more for themselves.
And what about the poorest people in the world, Labour is the only party that is actively supporting Trade Justice and Make Poverty History. Do you really want Michael Howard at the G8 summit?
This is all very well and good and stuff. But when the Tories gained from Green and SNP votes in last year's locals, the media were too dumb to realise and talked about Conservative gains. The same thing could happen here. How do we "send a message" that we hate Blair without sending the message that e like the Tories? Forget this talk of the Tories winning: they won't. But a swing to them, even for tactical reasons, will be interpreted by the idiots who write our newspapers as a swing to the right, and the govt will swing further to the right to follow. Nice idea, guys, but it doesn't work - first-past-the-post has screwed us.
reply to boneslab - Your comment is based on an irrelevant fantasy. Yes, if everyone in the country followed this advice, the tories would win. This website will not persuade EVERYONE; the purpose of the website is to persuade as many people as possible, so that when the election is over it will be immediately clear to every Labour MP that Blair is an electoral liability.
Personally, I don't believe the Tories can win, but I would rather have anyone who doesn't have quite so much blood on his hands, and quite so much contempt for parliament, and those. I am tired of being ashamed to be British.
eek eek
look, what I'm saying, if you're shew-er you want to listen to my carefully cultivated glo''al stops for the next five years... eek eek
my name's tony and I've done so well.. . eek eek I've got a big house I can scurry to when I have tooooooooooooo
eek
Does anyone else find BB's voice on this board a bit too much like their namesake?
ANTIWAR PROBLEM Arrogant Blair will not interpret my Tory vote as being antiwar, because (Jewish) Howard said that notwithstanding any old pack of B liar lies, the war was still o.k. with him (because Israel wanted it).
I agree with practically everything you say about this horrendous government.
I do not agree with your tactics. You state that even a Tory government (with a slim majority) would be ok, since it would force Labour to stop its lurch further and further to the right. What evidence to you have to support this? Labour has been lurching to the right since the mid 1980s in order to win the right wing tabloids over etc. You are assuming, positively, that we still have an ideological party clevage in British politics. However, even if an election is lost, it will be the same New Labour party election machine that swings into operation, looking to "compete" with all policies of the opposition.
Hence, I feel your assumption that a weak tory government will lead to a different kind of labour party (or labour government) in the future is not grounded in any fact or evidence.
Far, far too risky. I'll be voting Lib Dem - not tactically, but simply because they're the only major political party that doesn't seem to have facistic tendancies at the moment.
No one seems to have passed comment on Labour's handling of the economy, so I will.
One of the key commitments Labour made in 1997 was to honour Tory spending plans - the same commitment the Tories have been keen to stress in 2005.
During the 1st term, Gordon stuck to the Tory economic policies, cheaply earning a reputation for prudence then went on a spending spree that has left his hands tied, preventing him from giving away as many vote winning packages as the party wanted.
Is this prudence? I'd struggle to justify a yes.
I accept we have low inflation and low interest rates (inherited) but I can not give Brown all the credit he claims.
Will Gordon be remembered as the Chancellor who inherited a strong economy and did very little to spoil it - or the Chancellor who has complicated the Tax system beyond all reason?
Even if his redistributive aims are laudable, in this case at least, the ends do not justify the means.
Oh, and for the record before you bring out the flame throwers, I have never voted Labour or Tory, nor am I likely to.
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I want to categorically state that we the expats in Southern Africa totally loathe Tony Bleurggghh.
He is a danger to the UK, every time he wakes up.
He is a danger to the world's security by being George Bush's little b***h.
He doesn't care a hoot about us in South Africa. He froze the pensions for any UK citizen living here, meaning our UK OAPs are stuck with 60 quid a month forever, even though many worked in the UK for most of their lives.
He is deliberately ignoring the Zimbabwe problem, even though the UK government contributed to the problem (though make no mistake, Mugabe is evil). Our pathetic ANC government is siding with Mugabe and his bunch of thugs, so Zim needs the West to do something desperately.
Please UK, do not vote for New Labour. Keeping Tony Blair in power is the worst thing you can do. Already crime is sky-high, respect for elders is 0% and the yobs are taking over - do something about it!
Do not vote for a person who once said in Parliament "I don't care what the people think" ...
With Zimbabwe, not many of you know the truth. Granted, the Tories did the dirty work - but Labour has excelled it.
Note - Rhodesia/Zimbabwe was one of the richest countries in the world, rich in minerals, meat, tobacco and more - its food helped feed poor African countries)
1979 - Rhodesian War ended.
1980 - UK Government helped get Robert Mugabe in power instead of the much better Joshua Nkomo.
(18 months later, Zimbabwe just about bankrupt)
1983 - Mugabe launches a tribal war; he is "Shona" and sent the army into the Matabeleland province to ethnically cleanse the "Ndebele" tribe. UK government knew, but covered it up from YOU because it was embarrassing for them to announce that the guy they helped get into power was doing this.
* UK government had made plans with the ZImbabwean government to reimburse white Zimbabwean farmers in exchange for the land; the land would go to landless blacks.
by 2000 - our beloved prime minister had all but cancelled this agreement.
2000 - Land invasions began. Mugabe-supporting thugs calling themselves war veterans (though some were born after it!) went to white-owned farms, tortured, raped and killed whites, as well as black farm workers and seized the farms by force. The police did nothing to stop this, but arrested farmers who tried to protect themselves. Instead of using the farms for agriculture, the war veterans destroyed machinery, burnt down the farms and starved and killed the cattle for fun.
Mugabe distributed the land among the "landless" blacks. Who all happened to be MPs.
The current inflation rate is 120%, having been 700% a year ago. Most of the people are starving. There is widespread intimidation. Freedom of speech no longer exists. The elections are rigged big-time. This country is enduring just as bad a time as eg Iraq was under Saddam. But because there's no oil in Zimbabwe, Bush doesn't care, and because Bush doesn't care, Tony Blair follows suit. The West's attitude is "leave the mess for South Africa to clean up". The majority of us in South Africa are heartbroken and angry at what has happened to that wonderful country, but our government, the ANC, is a joke. People only voted for them because it's a tribal thing, or because nobody wanted to vote for a opposition with a white leader. Despite the fact the ANC is ruining many factors of the country and even the blacks who supported them now hate them, they STILL vote for them. The ANC sides with Mugabe's Zanu-PF party and will not allow a single bad word to be said about them. This loyalty is putting pressure on our own democracy.
Whoever becomes the next UK Prime Minister, PLEASE do something about this problem! Except Tony Blair, 'cos he's on his own agenda and to hell with the rest of us.
One thing Robert Mugabe HAS got right though - he is totally anti-Blair...
One thing you many care to remember.
When the Tories were in power, most MP scandals were sexually related (love children, being gay, wearing suspenders etc). It's not nice, but it was funny every time. Only 1 or 2 were corruption cases such as Neil Hamilton with "cash for questions".
Labour have had 3 love/sexual scandals as far as I can remember. Otherwise, it's all been cases of corruption.
What would you rather have, UK??? Male MPs wearing lingerie underneath their suits, or MPs stealing your hard-earned money for their own fun?
I used to be a Labour voter, and, reading the comments on this site, I am reminded why I drifted away from them, and eventually became a Conservative voter.
Why ?
Because most Labour supporters live in a closed mental universe, in which all
Americans are fat and evil; anyone working in the private sector is greedy and
self-centered; all problems should be solved by the government (and are caused
by the fat, evil Americans or private sector activities); public sector
organisations are staffed with selfless people who think only of the good of
the masses, and would never put their own interests ahead of the general
public.
The navel-gazing that passes for discourse on the Left makes it difficult for them to understand the changing world. Let me remind you of some inconvenient facts:
If we hadn't had the necessary changes made by the Thatcher government ('regime' as you'd call it) we would not be living in an Earthly paradise (like the one we had in the 1970s :-) ) - we'd be completely clapped out;
The only sensible thing Brown did was to give control of interest rates to the
Bank of England (in contrast, his attempts to control everything else has been a complete disaster);
Our current prosperity is mainly founded on the above two points, plus massive
borrowing;
America is our best and most constant ally in the world (not France, Germany, the EU, Russia or China).
Even though I will vote Conservative, I console myself that, if Labour win, I
can look forward to the infighting between Blair/Brown, and to watching Brown squirm as the economy comes off the rails under the burden of his taxation and borrowing.
I just wondered... on the subject of dubious regimes, is it me or is there something fishy going on in the UK? If I remember correctly:
* More people voted for Pop Idols and Big Brother than for the elections
* Labour only won 25% of overall votes (meaning that somewhere along the line, the Tories or Libs must've scored more!)
* Due to the proportional representation structure (which New Labour introduced) Labour won with a 44% majority
* Land-mass wise, the Tories kicked butt, but due to the new way of voting, half of Cornwall would be 1 seat whereas half of Halifax would be 1 seat too (which would mean that the country folk have even less say than ever, which makes Tony a happy city boy)
Add to this the total farce of the USA elections, and the vote-rigging in last year's South African elections (I should know, I voted and yet I'm ineligible) - and it just struck me! None of us are really living in a true democracy, and none of our elections are really free and fair, are they! Somebody really should act on Zimbabwe though, however to me it means that B&B (Bush and Blair; Blair shares Bush's bed and serves him breakfast afterwards, newspaper in his mouth and tail wagging) actually have no authority to complain about Zim's election problems, when they've doctored the system to their own advantage!
My solution: Get Bush and Blair into a room to talk about how to bomb another Arab country; get Mbeki and Mugabe into the same room under the guise of some African issues, and when they're all together... lock the door and torch the place.
Alternatively, you people make sure that Blair loses, let some crazy American get Bush JFK-style, and let somebody please strike oil in Zimbabwe so that the Americans will go and invade them and oust that deranged old bastard Mugabe. As for South Africa, well we'll get by, as long as people start to realise that the ANC no longer cares about the poor blacks, only the very rich ones who can afford to bribe them...
The EU controls Britain now anyway, and will do for ever more if people vote for any of the three puppets that dance to the EU tune.
You want democracy back, then break out of the sheep mould and vote for anyone but the main three or the BNP.
fuck off, what do you want, old labour? the tories?
I'm voting for the continuation of 'Blairs Golden Years'
So just fuck off!!
Let's face it, there is no choice to be made. Blair and Labour or Howard and the Conservatives equals rock and hard place. I'd personally be much better off under the tories, but that thought chills my bones and raises the hairs on the back of my neck.... I have never voted Tory and never will. Blair and "New" Labour makes me nauseous, however... I despise blatant liars.
Roll on another 5 years of Labour under the sound guidance of Gordon Brown AND Tony Blair......
Th suggestion that Gordon Brown is responsible for the low inflation/interest rate period we are wallowing in is interesting. Presumably that means he's responsible for the inflation/interest rates at equally low levels for the same period in the US, Australia, Singapore, NZ, France/Germany/Italy, Scandinavia & every other participant in the global economy. Given that the price of UK domestic power can now be controlled by Chicago market traders, domestic inflation is hardly in the hands of the Red Changellor. In fact its more likely to be in the hands of MBNA!
Don't lets also forget that Tony & Gordon's careful handling of the purse strings has actually been to con the have nots into supporting the economy to the tune of £1 trillion via personal debt. Oh, and just to help the debt along lets not forget the £5bn (I have to say that again) £5 BILLION, per year, that he's knicked from our pension funds.
Truthfully, the idea that employment is resolved by state employment/benefit schemes is covered in the opening chapter of "The Enron Guide to Financial Prudence".
Personally, I'd like to see Mr Prescott replace Tony. An honest man, and you can see wher he's coming from - a real Labour chappy who's not afraid of a good fight.
I will choose the Conservative party for simple reasons:
Labour stand for high taxes, penalising the rich (the wealth makers) and, until 1997, were no friend of business. What people seem to forget, when they retreat to their little socialist bubble, is that it's all well and good "standing up" for the workers, the little guys etc but at the end of the day, tax revenue from business far outstrips the tax revenue gained from it's employees. Without comapnies seeing Britain as an ideal place to base themselves, there are no jobs. Just look at Rover.
I don't earn an awful lot, (£250 p/w, before tax) but I cherish personal freedom and responsibility above all else. It is up to me to take care of myself and (eventually) my family. And that includes health care and education. I appreciate there needs to be a certain amount hte government does for us (A&E i support). In a low tax, private sector based economy we'd all be better off if left to our own devices. Lower income tax and raise VAT-that way you can visibly benefit from tax.
The lib dems, however, are just nonsense. Rights for convicted criminals? high taxes? unquestioned obedience to the European Union? No thanks
I had thought of voting lib-dem as they were the only ones against the war, and I don't like the current Tory line on Europe.
However, Backingblair may be right. Part of what has become so dangerous for our democracy is that a right wing labour party has enabled really exteme right wing policies to be implemented, that a Tory party just never could. If we had had a Tory government the labour party would have "opposed" there would have been no war.
So a right wing Tory government is better than a right wing labour government. Even on Europe there are probably enough pro-Europe Tories to ensure extreme right wing policies would not get through.
Anything that can reduce Blair's majority or possibly create a hung parliament has got to be good.
As previous posters have mentioned the threat of ID cards and detention without trial are so fundamental to our way of life that it is essential they are stopped by any means. If Labour are re-elected they will implement. I agree that they have done good things over the last few years but any party with massive majority will think that can do whatever they like which is bad for democracy.
Loved the site, and admire the comments, wanted to place a link to my own blogsite, but disliked the thought of even half of Blair's face on my bandwidth!
My own philosophy is complicated, but some is laid out within my blog, where we come together is the need to get rid of the Labour Majority!
http://mikesbooksandthinks.myblogsite.com/blog/
Regards
This site is brilliant! Great Idea...just love it!
What a load of rubbish.
Risky, incoherent, flawed and self-satisfied.
If you are not a Tory front... which the BBC says you're not, so you can't be... but maybe so are they...
Anyway, how can your advice in Westmorland, a Tory/Lib Dem marginal be "There's not a lot for you to do here, other than to vote for the leading candidate." i.e. the Tory?
Site is great - how about a link to www.BlairFacedLies.com
Dont vote for any pro war labour mps.
Give Tony Blair a bloody nose.
Punish labour for betraying the working class and socialism.
Tell robin Cook to take a hike.
the first time i have heard him talk such nonsense!!
DONT VOTE FOR JACK STRAW
DONT VOTE FOR FITSIMMONS
DONT VOTE FOR GAPES
DONT VOTE FOR OONA KING
Its pay back time for Tony the poodle.
Tony and Labour should be humiliated to prove that they ignored the will of the British public.
see, mpacuk
Is the webmaster of BackingBlair Lynton Crosby by any chance??
It is a pity that so many people are derogatory about the Lib Dems. And yes, I am a Lib Dem voter. In doing so you dismiss the views and votes of 20% and I think that is a pity. They deserve more than that.
The trouble seems to be that people are stuck in a left/right mindset, hence this impression that in 'left' areas the Lib Dems go for the right and in 'right' areas the Lib Dems go for the left. There is more than that you know. Some aspects of liberalism might appeal to different areas of the spectrum. We've been stuck in socialist vs capitalist for so long that some people can't see past it. I scoff, by the way, at Tony Blair's 'Third Way' since it actually turned out to be just authoritarian uber-capitalism, neatly encapsulating the worse aspects of both socialism and capitalism in one incredible nasty package.
Fact is, if you want a system that discourages polarisation and actually deserves the name 'democracy' you have to have some form of PR. And you are not going to get that from either a Labour or a Tory government in the current climate because they get so much out of the first-past-the-post system. So please do consider voting Lib Dem, if only tactically. I think you might be surprised at the number of people who usually vote tactically for one of the other two, but this time are voting with their consciences. Things could actually be changing.
This website is dangerous, as right wing and detestable as Blair is, Howard can and will do a lot more damage to all but the smallest percent of the population.
I think that this website is misguided and if you really want rid of Blair (as most of the people reading this will) then you should concentrate on getting him kicked out of sedgefield, which would not pose a threat to the rest of the country.
The troy voters will always turn out and the slightest occurence of voter apathy will let them back in via the backdoor. Has anyone noticed the distinct non-presence of John Redwood this time around....
Aragorn: He's right you know. The troy voters will always be there ready to sneak back in, adn that film sucked ass man. Just rent it, remember how bad it was? Yeah.
Don't vote for Troy. Their time was over when the Roman's sacked their city. mind you, if the Torjans had Aragorn they might have won...
Col: I'm with you there. I've had enough Big Brother. Let's get Davina off tv and into unemployment, where she belongs. NO MORE BIG BROTHER.
Mandy: Would the tories have lifted a million children out of poverty? Would they have created near full employment? Would they be pressing the world's leading nations to cancel third world debt? Would they have introduced extra benefits for children, the poorest families and the poorest pensioners? I'm guessing on their past record...that would be a no.
But we're talking about the future, and remember, this website isn't backing the Tories. Read the website, then make your mind up...
In the meantime, take a look at the economy, education, the NHS, the unemployment figures and the general state of the nation and ask yourself; would we be better off under a Tory Government? I think not…
And I think so. Different opinions, neither any more valid than the other. My problem lies with Tony. He's a f**king liar. http://labour-watch.com/sleaze.htm
The humanist: "disband the BNP and similar groups" and freedom of speech goes where?
I'm not apathetic - there genuinely isn't anyone worth voting for, so I am prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to get the current party out of power.
Aragorn: No, we expect the Troy voters to sneak in the *front* door. In a giant wooden horse.
pointlessly confusing argument, (if indeed it is an argument at all)... all politicians are liers it's their job, but what did the lib dems do that was so horribly bad that everyone hates them? oh that's right no-one hates them, they just don't bother voting for them. Tories, BNP and Labour are all much further right-wing than i would comfortably vote but because the popular press encourages generalisation & xenophobia we continue down this shit-covered path. I'm leaving the country at the earliest opportunity - screw you and your 'tactical' voting crap.
Jesus, leaving on a jet plane.. you've left it a bit late, haven't you?
I think people in this country have lost the plot.
In a conscientious and thinking society "New Labour" could never have won the last Gen Elect!
They won through good advertising of a shoddy product. Their competitors didn't seem much better. When the brand name is rubbish, when the product is rubbish, good advertising is the ALL. There's no shortage of gullible sheep looking for something to buy into...
This website focusses on the removal of Bliar. Fair enough, that's vital for the future good of this country. But, suppose that's achieved soon - what then?
We will still have the ridiculous "democratic" system that's in place. The professional politicians in the main parties are not going to be capable of running the country to a half-decent standard. Just more buffoonery, manipulation and deceit that costs us, the taxpayers.
We need a complete Parliamentary reform. Included in that reform, we need Proportionate Representation and we need to end the political parties system. Until we have these two, we're stuck with inneffective politics dominated by gangs of worse than worthless politicians.
Yes, the house needs work. Parts of it are structurally unsound... but right now the kitchen is on fire and that's our main priority. Cheers.
ive very cautiously voted tory at the last election, and at the generals i voted lib dem, though im am very afraid of the tories going back to their thatcherite ways and the lib dems are just way too soft on crime. like new labour. sigh.
but i meet many labour supporters who blindly follow new labour because of it's succes in the poles, people who actually support the iraq war and the legislative and reform act.
i actually think the tories are the lesser of the three evils, though they're all really bad.
dont get me started on the BNP.
my major complaints with new labour lie with the war, the civil rights crisis, inheritance tax (which, ironically, doesn't affect the super rich anymore), soaring crime figures, and my auntie sue was one of the 11,000 nurses who just lost their jobs. and shes just got divorced. ouch.
elect me as your prime minister and i'll try to fix this mess.
also, if the tories are evil and old labour are so good then how come the tories were in for so long and labour were out?
i am merely playing the devils advocate here, as i know the answers to these questions.
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